Kim
Beta Testers Wanted for a Free Bottle Of Kre-Alkalyn

You have put your finger on a very hot topic for me. I suppose that over the years I have thought about “predestination and free will” quite differently than most folks do… and none of them wanted to hear about what I was thinking anyway… Thanks! Believing that you only exist as a figment of His imagination tends to shed a new perspective on this topic.

The stress between my free will and my predestination has given me many hours of thinking, reading, headaches… the bottom line is that I believe that I must have both free will and be predestined at the same time. It makes no sense to me, but hey, I am not God… he can do several things that I can not do…

A Reformed Presbyterian pastor told me a little story that helped me reach this balance of tension. As the story goes, John Calvin and John Wesley died and saw each other walking up the path to the pearly gates. They greeted each other and walked on together. When they got close, they saw a sign over the gate that said “Whosoever will may come.” Wesley glanced at Calvin who nodded his head in understanding. They walked on through the gate. They looked around and then glanced back at the inside of the gate. There on the back side of the sign it said “Known from the foundation of the universe.” They both smiled and walked on together.

If someone has free will, then they must choose God. How can they choose if they have not heard? If I choose not to speak, then is someone lost because I was rebellious? Calvinists have produced some of the greatest missionaries… who believed that only the chosen can come, and that none can resist… so why do they go? Because they desire to follow God’s will, not because they will make God fail to realize his will. Re-read Romans 9 – 11 in this frame of mind and see what you think. http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ro+9&version=niv&showtools=0

That would be great. Maybe Dubyah could be encouraged to go there…

2.) Well done! This is a very comprehensive look at our non-existence. Well laid out argument and very interesting. I’ve read about about the double slit experiment and a few of the other things, but I’ll have to go through all of your links and get the full info.

It’s a fascinating universe isn’t it?

Okay, but question here… I’ve come believe as you have that we exist because God thinks we do….but then the question becomes, if we are ‘figments’ of God’s imagination, do we have an independent existence apart from God? Does the universe?

If so, how? As you point out, we really don’t exist. If we exist because God thinks or imagines, then our existence seems to be dependent on God’s continuing to think… a contradiction to our independent existence.

If we don’t have an independent existence then 1.) In Christian theology we believe that one chooses Heaven or Hell by choosing or rejecting Jesus… but how can a figment of God’s imagination be cast into a place totally devoid of Him? or is Hell not totally devoid of God (where can I go where you are not? asks David) 2.) If we and the world and the universe are not-independent of the God mind then we are all part of the divine… how can we have our own free-will… and again Christian theology has a problem… why would we need Jesus (the Divine) to be sacrificed for us (part of the Divine)?.

I’m not sure I’ve fully resolved this dilemma to my satisfaction yet… other than to say, we do have free will and independent existence, it’s got to be something metaphysical and apart from God though I can’t really put my finger on what it is exactly.